Manish Kumar
Post News Network
A mythologist and a noted leadership consultant, Devdutt Pattanaik has written more than 30 books. The famous author, who holds an MBBS degree from Grant Medical College, Mumbai, talks to Orissa POST about his views on mythology and management. Excerpts:
OP-You are one of the few writers who have attempted to write on mythology and have succeeded. What dragged you to write specifically on mythology?
DP-Dragged? That sounds oppressive. I think I was chosen by this delightful alluring and very choosy subject-goddess who does not reveal her secrets to all. I was always enchanted, like most children, by the stories and symbols and rituals. I felt that what was told in comics and children’s books was not enough. This made me very curious and led me to read more scholarly books in my free time.
Over time, I realised the gap between the popular books and the scholarly books, which led to me writing my early books, first published 20 years ago, that simply brought more information to the fore. Later, I discovered patterns in the information that revealed a deeper thought, much of which was missed by scholars either because they were too immersed in devotion and chauvinism, or because they were following a Western template of mythic reading.
As regards success, I really don’t care for it, beyond it indulging my vanity for a bit, as I have always made sure that my income comes from other sources, not my work in mythology.
OP-You have tried your hand at interpretation of mythology in India. Do you see the same happening globally? How many writers do you see seriously working on that? How important is it in the current scenario?
DP-It depends on what you call mythology. For me mythology is the subjective truth of a culture communicated through stories, symbols and rituals. They are usually concepts deemed sacred and held in high regard as long as the culture survives. By this definition, a modern writer who writes on ‘democracy’ or ‘atheism’ or ‘secularism’ or even ‘nation state’ is also writing on mythology using ‘historical’ narratives to celebrate a culture’s conceptual reality. Those who write on Islam or Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism are all pursuing mythology, as they explore conceptual truths of various culture.
OP-In the past few years, several attempts have been made to tarnish different religions by vivid interpretations. How important is it now for writers like you to present the correct interpretation to avoid disharmony in society?
DP-There are two ways to approach any subject. Like a judge or lawyer, or as a dispassionate observer. The former approach leads to the desire to ‘tarnish’ or ‘uplift’ a narrative or religion. Not all the myths are religious. The mythology of the nation-state is secular mythology, which is popular among nationalist historians, or hero-worshipping historians. I follow the dispassionate observer approach, empathizing with the human need to validate human existence through stories, symbols and rituals.
There is no such thing as ‘truth’ in this world, though all of us yearn for it. Hence, this obsession with ‘correctness’ took place. We assume that religion results in war. However, we overlook the fact that the World Wars and the Cold Wars of the 20th century had nothing to do with religion. They dealt with secular mythologies like capitalism and communism.
OP-You have written a book on mythology and myth. Many writers say mythology is far from history based on imagination. How would you make this mindset discern between mythology and history?
DP-We often overlook the fact that justice, equality, God, heaven and hell are not natural phenomena. They are cultural constructions, created by man, for man, to create a civilised society. I call them ‘myths’ as they are indifferent to rational thought and focus more on emotions. They are true to insiders and false for outsiders. Fantasy is nobody’s truth. Science and history is about measurable truth. Myth is about somebody’s truth. There is no such thing as everybody’s truth, though people have fierce debates and even wars to prove that their truth is the truth.
Science is good at measuring matter, not the mind. Psychology remains an imperfect science, not a pure science, as we cannot measure emotions. We can at best use physical reactions to emotions are surrogate markers. In science, what we know depends on how we interpret facts and different humans can interpret the same facts in very different ways. Also, when new facts are discovered all old ‘truths’ are cast away.
In the 18th century, Indians were clueless about the Mauryan Empire. Now we see this as critical information of India’s ancient imperial heritage. We really don’t know how Chanakya, or even Ashoka, looked. There is no fact available. Yet, we imagine a form and consider it to be historical reality, especially when presented so in television serials. The mythology-goddess chuckles in delight.
OP-There are many Indians conducting research in India or abroad on religions, conflict and mythology. Do you think more research by the present generation will strengthen the understanding and correction interpretation of religions?
DP-I am on a personal journey and not on a mission of converting the world. I certainly don’t believe there is any error out there that needs correction. Your question follows the template of Abrahamic mythology, a popular modern template where the prophet strives to save people and take them to the promised land of perfection.
You have used Mahabharata and Ramayana to highlight contemporary business management objectives. How are these linked?
DP-Both the epics are property disputes. Ramayana speaks about the inheritance of Ayodhya, Kishkinda and Lanka, while Mahabharata speaks about the inheritance of Hastinapur. So these are about business, if we open our eyes to it. However, we are too busy trying to find mystical secrets in it, when the storytellers were dealing with the psychological roots of practical social issues. It is the nature of the human animal to turn the pragmatic into the exotic in order to make his own life enchanting.
OP-How is mythology related to the corporate sector?
DP-Business is about people. Mythology is about people. Modern management textbooks, written by European and American scholars, are aligned to Abrahamic mythology, which talks about goal-orientation and the journey to the promised land. Greek mythology is about heroically challenging the status quo. Hindu mythology is a balance sheet of karma and the repaying of debts. Mythology is all about life and business, if you have eyes to see.
OP-What compelled you to turn from a physician to a writer?
DP-No compulsion. Just choice based on opportunities presented. I was never a clinician. I worked in the pharma and healthcare industry after graduating in medicine. Mythology has been a hobby for nearly 20 years. People loved my work but it was only about five years ago that they were willing to pay me enough for me to give up my day job and focus only on mythology.
OP-You recently tweeted that the youth of today increasingly want to judge Ram and justify Ravan and that their elders want Ram to be blindly worshipped with only a few people wanting to observe to understand. What do you mean by that?
DP-Traditionally, Ram is presented as God. Youth, determined to be contrarian, want to see Ram as the villain and Ravan as the anti-hero, if not hero. This is easy if you see Ramayana through a feminist or socialist lens. But Hinduism does not have the concept of judgment day. One does not approach epics as judges or lawyers, trying to figure out who is right and who is wrong. There are other approaches. But to discover this, we have to step away from the desire to judge. This is tough as judgment makes us feel superior and powerful. The animal desire to dominate blinds us from appreciating the wisdom of the Hindu epics.
OP-You recently visited Orissa and gave a speech during former Orissa Chief Minister Nandini Satpathy’s birth anniversary. What memories did you take from Orissa?
DP-The love of the audience at Soochana Bhawan was overwhelming. It touched me deeply. I also visited the Jagannath temple at Puri. The temple food at Puri is always a delight.
